The Fulton County Glove Cutters' Strike of 1914 - Board of Mediation and Arbitration Hearings
The Glovers of Fulton County

The Glove Cutters' Strike of 1914: New York State Board of Mediation and Arbitration Hearings,
October 8, 1914 ~ Morning Session

 

ORIGINAL TEXT OF DOCUMENT STARTS BELOW

[Original manuscript pages 207-246]


In the matter of the striking glove cutters
of Gloversville, Johnstown and vicinity.
Hearing before the
STATE BOARD OF MEDIATION AND ARBITRATION.

 Council Chamber, City Hall,
 Gloversville, N.Y. Oct. 8, 1914

 P R E S E N T :

Mr. William C. Rogers, Chief Mediator.
Mr. James McManus,
Mr. P. S. Downey,

 A P P E A R A N C E S:

Mr. McMahon, For the Attorney General.

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S A M U E L  S P I N N O C K, called and sworn as a witness, testified as follows:

EXAMINED BY MR. McMAHON:

Q. How old are you Mr. Spinnock? A. 34.

Q. Where do you live? A. Gloversville.

Q. Where do you work? A. Lehr & Nelson.

Q. Are you a table cutter? A. Yes, sir.

Q. How much do you make a week? A. An average would be $14 a week.

Q. How many hours a day do you work? A. Ten hours, full ten hours.

Q. Is any record kept of the number of hours of the day that you work? A. No.

Q. But that is the average? A. That is the average, full ten hours.

Q. Are you married? A. Yes.

Q. Does your wife work at glove making? A. A little bit. She makes a dollar, a dollar and a half a week, two dollars.

Q. Any children? A. Three.

Q. Have you any statement you want to state as to why you struck; tell us about conditions in the factory, the taxation? A. The factories are awful hard as to taxation. Of course we have to work hard to make a living. Everything is high. That is my reason.

Q. Are you able to get along on the money you are earning now? A. No.

Q. Have you saved any money? A. No.

Q. Do you own the house you live in? A. No.

Q. Do you know whether many of the cutters own the houses they live in or not? A. Well, some own their houses, not many of them, because I can't own a house if I have fifty dollars, fifty dollars invested in the house.

Q. It doesn't cost very much to own your own house? A. No, fifty dollars.

 

H A R R Y R I E B R A U D, called and sworn as a witness testifies as follows:

EXAMINED BY MR. McMAHON:

Q. How old are you Mr. Riebraud? A. 48.

Q. Where do you live? A. No. 5 No. Ford Street.

Q. Where do you work? A. George Mandrell's.

Q. Are you a table cutter? A. Yes.

Q. You make how much a week? A. $12.50 or $13 a week.

Q. That is an average is it? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Do you know how many hours you work a day? A. 82 to 9 hours a day.

Q. That is, right along, day in and day out? A. Yes, sir.

Q. That is at about 95 cents a dozen? A. 95 and a dollar a dozen.

Q. How are you able to get along on your wages? A. Well, I get along, that is about all, I don't save any money.

Q. Are you married? A. No, sir, I have been. I don't live with my wife.

Q. You don't save any money you say? A. No, sir.

Q. Do you own the house you live in? A. No, sir.

Q. Why did you strike? A. Well I struck because the rest of them went out. That's about all I struck for.

Q. Do you feel that the strike is justified? A. I do so, in other shops and I think they were. We don't have the grievances in our shop they had in other shops.

Q. Where is the shop you work in, here in Gloversville? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Aren't conditions there bad? A. I couldn't say as they are, no. Not any worse today than they were ten years ago for me.

Q. Not any worse? A. No, I had to cut rags and special pairs all my life anyway.

Q. You always have? A. Yes.

Q. You have been working for ten years under the conditions these fellows are just getting? A. Just the same. I cut gloves for 28 years and found it just the same all the while.

Q. Do you find any difference in your living expenses now? A. Oh yes, a good deal higher.

Q. Does the money go as far? A. No, sir.

Q. Do you believe that you are entitled to an increase in wages? A. Yes, sir, I do.

Q. How many dozen can you cut in one day? A. I have cut three dozen a day, but I can't do it every day. Some days I cut, - from the skins I get, 36 pairs, 28 pairs, 29 pair and 30 pair and I have had some skins where I couldn't make that.

Q. How is the taxing system in the factory where you are? A. It is very close.

Q. But it has been for some time? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Could you work faster if the taxing was not as severe? A. Yes, sir. A great many times when I get a batch of work I have to go around to see if I can get fittings to fix them up.

Q. You have to go around the factory? A. Yes, sir, but that is only a small item.

Q. Well some sort of taxing is necessary? A. Yes, sir.

Q. You don't suppose that the men could be left to do their own taxing on the skins? A. I think it would be all right for a great many cutters, yes.

Q. A great many, but aren't there a lot that would waste the material? A. I couldn't say.

 

J O H N H A G E R, called and sworn as a witness testifies as follows:

EXAMINED BY MR. McMAHON:

Q. What factory are you in? A. George Mandrell Co.

Q. As a table cutter? A. Yes, sir.

Q. How much do you make a week? A. I have never figured it closely, I should judge in the neighborhood of about $14.

Q. That is for a nine hour day? A. No, that is for more than that. I work more than nine hours.

Q. How much, do you know? A. I should judge that I work 54 hours a week at least. That is I work five days ten hours, and generally about four hours on Saturday and some years we work over there Saturday afternoon too.

Q. How does your income strike you as a satisfactory living wage or not? A. No, sir, it is not.

Q. Not enough? A. No, sir.

Q. Does your wife work? A. She has been sick; she did work; she was a teacher in the public school here the first part of my married lief but she has been sick I believe.

Q. Do you feel that you are entitled to a higher wage for the work you do? A. We have been promised that for a number of years in this locality. We were led to believe that by the manufacturers and politicians who talked to us, that in the idea of a tariff we were entitled to a raise.

Q. Have you ever been on a committee to confer with the manufacturers? A. I was on a committee a number of years ago when we had trouble among the cutters and the manufacturers and I was working at Hutchins & Potters at that time.

Q. How were conditions there? A. They were worse there than at the present place I work. The taxing was harder.

Q. Is the severity of the taxes quite a grievance? A. It is in some shops.

Q. How could it be improved, do you know? A. By giving a man more leather to cut the scale of gloves out.

Q. It would not be safe to take off the taxing entirely, would it? A. I have worked that way already.

Q. Have you saved any money? A. I have saved a little.

Q. Have you a bank account? A. Not to speak of, very small.

Q. You don't know, do you, whether the employees before they went on this strike tried to induce the banks to cause the manufacturers to give them the raise they wanted and stated that if the raise was not forthcoming that they would withdraw from the banks their deposits? A. I couldn't tell you that, I never heard it.

Q. You don't know whether that would make much difference to the banks or not, do you? A. I could not say.

Q. How long have you been with mandrell's? A. In the neighborhood of five years.

Q. Where did you work last? A. I was working for Bachner and Moses Co.

Q. What would you regard as a fair basis of taxation of the skins? A. What would I regard.

Q. Wherein does the present taxing work any injustice to the men? A. In putting up with what we call type a man has to look around the shop, each cutter you understand as a rule - certain lots have some pieces left. A person has to run around from one cutter to another and borrow pieces in order to fit up lots that he has if the skins do not hold out, do not fit the gloves you are cutting, and in that way it retards the cutter.

Q. Have you ever had any experience with the fining system? A. No, sir.

 

M U R V I N H A V E R L E Y, called and sworn as a witness testifies as follows:

EXAMINED BY MR. McMAHON:

Q. Where do you work Mr. Haverley? A. Down at George Mandrell's.

Q. How much do you make a week? A. I make about $13 a week.

Q. For a nine hour day? A. 92 hours.

Q. What regulates the time you work? A. I generally try to get there at half past seven and quit at six.

Q. There is enough work there always? A. Yes.

Q. Does your time vary in the summer and in the winter? A. Not unless they slacken up. If they do then you have to quit when it is dark.

Q. Do you think you are getting enough money? A. I really do not think so.

Q. Are there any conditions under which you could earn more except the raise? A. If the taxation were not quite so bad and wearing on a man.

Q. You say it worries him? A. Yes, sir.

Q. How is that? A. Well you have to figure out to get your pairs and get them all out and have no faults into them. There is a certain worry onto a man.

Q. You are not able to do your work as well? A. No, sir.

Q. Do you turn out as good work? A. You got to turn out good work or you don't stay.

Q. How about the fines - are you fined? A. No, sir, never been fined.

Q. Are you married? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Children? A. Yes, sir, three.

Q. Any money in the bank? A. No, sir.

Q. Are you in debt? A. Yes, sir, in debt.

Q. Do you own the house you live in? A. No, I don't own it; I got a few dollars paid onto it.

Q. Is that an expensive matter? A. No, sir. Of course it is understood that me and the boy buys the place together.

Q. That is one of your children? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Is he a glove cutter? A. Yes, sir.

Q. How much is the total income of the family? A. We make about eleven hundred dollars together, the boy and me and my wife.

Q. Your wife works? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Your son is not married? A. No, sir.

Q. You are better able to get along than most of these witnesses who have testified here? A. Yes, sir, with my boy's help.

BY MR. ROGERS:

Q. How old is your son? A. He will be 20 the 14th day of April.

BY MR. McMAHON:

Q. Do you feel that conditions are unjust? A. Yes, sir.

Q. How would a 15 percent increase strike you? A. Good.

Q. Enough? A. No, it is not enough. I would like more if I can get it, but if I can not get it, I will have to be satisfied.

Q. Is there any limit where you would be satisfied? A. Yes there is a limit.

Q. Where is that? A. I think if we got 20 to 25 a man would not have to kill himself to work and he could support his family and pay his debts.

Q. Have you anything to say about the factory and the work in any particular, any grievance that you have personally? A. No, I haven't. I have a fairly good shop to work in, the taxation is a little tight - it isn't so bad as some other shops.

Q. So as glove cutting goes, you think you are fairly well off? A. What do you mean?

Q. Comparatively? A. Comparatively good.

Q. Have you ever worked anywhere else except around here at glove cutting? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Where is that? A. Dempster & Place's.

Q. That's right here too? A. Yes, sir. I worked for Mason & Campbell in Johnstown.

Q. Was your income any different there? A. A good deal less.

Q. Less? A. Yes, sir.

 

G E O R G E H A N S O N, called and sworn as a witness testifies as follows:

EXAMINED BY MR. McMAHON:

Q. What is your full name Mr. Hanson? A. George Hanson.

Q. Where do you live? A. 26 North Avenue.

Q. How old are you? A. 32.

Q. Married? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Children? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Where do you work? A. Adler's.

Q. That is one of the bigger factories isn't it? A. Yes, sir.

Q. How much do you make a week? A. I average about $14.50 a week.

Q. That is pretty good isn't it? A. No, I guess not.

Q. Not enough? A. No.

Q. Isn't that more than most of the men make? A. No, there are probably similar and some a little bit more, but I am an average worker.

Q. You are not fast? A. I am not fast, but not slow either.

Q. Does your wife work? A. Yes, sir, she used to work but not any more. She is sick for the last ten months. I am back in my bills $150.

Q. Do you own the house where you live? A. No, sir.

Q. How do you feel about conditions here? A. Well, I feel conditions are very bad here in Fulton county and I feel that for the last 17 years we didn't have no raise and I feel that now is the time that we are entitled to it. The cost of living is so high I think we are entitled to have a good raise, not 25 cents, but I think 25 cents would not be enough. If we are experts in our glove cutting we ought to get a good raise and not to put our children and wives and then they shall help us out. I think we should make ourselves a living and not put our children and wives to the factory. That is the way I feel about it. We suffer before we get in that trade, and all kinds of things and I think we are entitled to make a living ourselves and not put the wives and children to the factory so that they shall help us out. That is the way I feel about it.

Q. It is a fact, isn't it, that most of the women around Gloversville? A. Not, all, but almost every woman in Fulton county is working and if not we would not be able to make a living.

Q. Do you know of any cases where it is not necessary for the wife to work but she does it for the sake of a little extra money? A. Not as far as I know. Of course to have four or five families in one house and eat one meal a day, probably it would be alright.

Q. How is the taxing in your factory? A. Taxation - of course not everybody is alike. To my personal knowledge I can say I am on a kind of special work down there and they are pretty fair to me in my taxation because they have to have the quality from the skin. If they tax the skin very close they would not have the quality.

Q. What work do you do? A. Cape.

Q. That is 95 cents? A. 95 and 1.06 a dozen.

Q. How many hours do you work a day? A. I generally work 92 hours a day, during the year when I got work, except when the shop slacks up. Of course I can not help that, but I work steady 92 hours a day.

Q. They do not keep any record of your time, do they? A. I don't know. I keep myself the time. I know when I go to work and what time I end.

 

M A X S T E I N E R, called and sworn as a witness testifies as follows:

EXAMINED BY MR. McMAHON:

Q. Where do you live? A. I am 22 years old and live at 66 Helwic Street.

Q. Where do you work? A. David & Fleischer.

Q. You are a table cutter, Mr. Steiner? A. Yes, sir. I am a table cutter.

Q. How much do you make a week? A. My average wage last year was about $14 and this year my average is $13 a week.

Q. Last year you were making $14? A. $14.

Q. How many hours a day, do you know? A. That is different. In the spring and in the autumn one time we are working without light and one time we work with light, but the work steady is nine and ten hours a day.

Q. About nine and ten is an average? A. An average.

Q. How are conditions in the factory where you are, how is the taxing? A. One time you get a good lot and you can work so you can get all you want and another time you can get a lot that is only ripe for different work, for piece work. One day I make $1.70 or $1.80 or $1.90. Sometimes the work is such that I lose the time of one day.a I must go around the shop and look for my pieces and fittings I need for the gloves. At one time it is all right and at another time it is different in the shop. Sometimes the taxing is not too hard. Sometimes it is all right and sometimes it is only there for the men who are there to repair, but the manufacturer loses money and he keeps me by the day on this work and I lose money.

Q. Do you work sometimes by the day? A. No, I never work by the day.

Q. Have you ever been fined? A. No, sir, I never was fined. I never paid in my life a cent for one glove.

Q. For one glove? A. I never paid a cent.

Q. You own the house where you live? A. No, sir.

Q. Are you married? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Any children? A. No, sir.

Q. Does your wife work? A. Yes, sir.

Q. How much does she make? A. Its like this, when she gets good work one time $5.00 one time $6.00 one time $7.00 less and more, - I am not sure. It is the same by the table cutter. When the work is good it is more and then it is less.

BY MR. ROGERS:

Q. Does she work in the house or in the factory? A. Works in the factory. There was one man in my shop, he could not get a living and when the strike started he never came out. All the time he talked he could not make a living and now he stays in the shop. He has one child.

BY MR. McMAHON:

Q. Is he working now? A. Yes, sir. Before he could not make his living and now he stays for the same price.

Q. Are there many strike breakers working? A. In my shop?

Q. Yes? A. Three.

BY MR. ROGERS:

Q. How many cutters usually work there? A. One time there is forty and one time forty-six, twenty-six - in good times forty-six and sixty and then two or three weeks they don't use the third floor but the most times they cut with 40 to 46 cutters.

BY MR. McMAHON:

Q. Do you save any money: A. Yes, sir.

Q. Have you a bank account? A. Bank account, yes sir.

Q. You are able to get along on what you are making? You can live you are getting along all right on your present wages? A. No, I want more pay for my wages. The work that I do I would get enough for my work - I want more for my work. I would not have voted for a strike for 15 cents. When I said I was for the strike it was not for 15 cents, but I must say now. I would like to have more than 15 cents for my work.

Q. Why? A. They want too much from the glove cutter from the skins.

Q. Did you ever work at glove cutting in Germany? A. Yes. Well I started in at my trade in 1896 and done four years learning my trade and I was 17 years in the old country. I was all over the old country and I never found such ways as I find here in this work, it is so different.

Q. Better over there? A. One time better and one time it is not. The conditions for working are better over there.

Q. Do you and your wife do any work at home? A. My wife works in the shop.

Q. Does she ever take work home? A. Yes, sir, she worked one time until eleven o'clock, one time twelve o'clock -- that is what I said before, - in the trimming. That is what my wife does all the time in this house.

BY MR. DOWNEY:

Q. Then your wife works eight hours in the factory and takes work home and works until twelve o'clock at night? Is that what you want us to understand? A. Yes, but not all the time.

Q. How often? A. Two or three times a week.

Q. Then she works practically 12 to 13 hours a day? A. When she goes at half past eight in the shop it is different. She must do the house work. She never can go at seven o'clock in the shop. When they work overtime they take home the trimmings. That takes lots of time.

Q. Do you know if that is the custom of a good many of the women that work in the factory, to bring the work home? A. No, I don't like that, I hate that. I want to make my living myself and she stay home. She makes a little, two, three or four dollars, but I make low wages and my wife says always, it is not enough to put away, two or three dollars to save and when two people work and they got no children, they want to save a little money, not only to work for a living. I think that is the right way.

BY MR. McMAHON:

Q. Do you know whether a lot of other women do that? A. The whole of Gloversville does that. You can come here in the night and you can see in all the houses a shop in the winter time. If you come in the winter time you can look all through the houses and you will find a light in every house.

Q. All working? A. Yes, sir.

BY MR. ROGERS:

Q. You would prefer to make a living for your own family rather than have your wife work too? A. I can make a living myself, I don't know what you mean by a living. I can live with one herring and I can live without butter but I want to make a right living for the work I do.

Q. What do you think is a living wage? A. What do you mean by it?

Q. What do you think is a living wage? A. I think a man who has no children $14, $13, and a man who has children $18, $20, $22. With two or three children $19 I think is the right wage for many who have one child. That is my idea. I come from a big family, from home, and I know what it means to provide for a family, and here there is awful high prices in the city.

 

R O B E R T K O B E R L E I N, called and sworn as a witness, testified as follows:

EXAMINED BY MR. McMAHON:

Q. How old are you? A. 58 years.

Q. You live where? A. Here in Gloversville, 86 West Point Street.

Q. Where do you work? A. For Dempster & Place.

Q. How much do you make a week? A. I am working ever since December 10th and I figure altogether I make on the average $10.88.

Q. Are you married? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Have you any children? A. Just a boy, who is a married man, no small children.

Q. Does he live with you? A. Yes, sir. For the present.

Q. Does he work? A. No, he is on strike just the same.

Q. He was a glove cutter? A. He was a glove cutter, yes sir.

Q. How much does he make a week, do you know? A. Maybe the same, maybe a dollar less than I do. He is a little slow.

Q. Are you satisfied with what you are getting? A. No, sir, I wish I could earn a couple of dollars more every week.

Q. Have you any money? A. No, sir.

Q. Do you own the house where you live? A. Yes, I got a house where I live, but I have a big mortgage on it.

Q. How long have you owned it? A. About nine years.

Q. Were you making more money when you bought the house? A. Yes, at that time I made a little more. I could lay a couple of times back and buy that house on easy payments.

Q. Tell us about conditions here; why you went on strike? A. Well, I think the table cutters are really entitled to a raise. They ought to have anyway a chance to earn a couple of dollars more weekly than they do now and I remember years ago we could earn a dollar or a couple of dollars more money because the work was easier at the time than it is now.

Q. Did the money go further than; could you buy more with your money? A. Oh, yes, the cost of living is much higher than it was eight or ten years ago. It amounts to more than two dollars a week. We got to pay more for everything we need.

BY MR. ROGERS:

Q. Where did you learn your trade? A. In Germany.

Q. How long have you been in this country? A. 24 years.

Q. Have you been working as a glove cutter all of that time? A. Except about one and a half or two years when I was in the bird business myself in New York City. I ran a store for a while.

Q. How do your earnings compare now with what you at ten or fifteen years ago? A. Well, ten or fifteen years ago - at that time the cost of living was lower than it is now.

Q. Did you earn as much money then sa you do now? A. I earned more.

Q. You earned more than you do now? A. Yes, I used to work down in New York City. We had a better price there.

Q. Does your wife do any work? A. Once in a while if she has some, but there isn't much work, because she is an overstitch maker and there isn't all the time the work. Sometimes she earns a couple of dollars and some weeks nothing.

BY MR. DOWNEY:

Q. You say that nine years ago you bought this house that you are living in now? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Now you have a large mortgage on that house at the present time? A. Yes.

Q. It has not been paid for? A. No.

Q. How long would it take you at the present wages you are getting to clear that mortgage? A. I guess I never will.

 

A L B E R T A L V A N O, called and sworn as witness, testifies as follows:

EXAMINED BY MR. McMAHON:

Q. What is your full name? A. Albert Alvano.

Q. Where do you live? A. 11 Market Street.

Q. And you work where? A. Lehr & Nelsons.

Q. How much do you make a week? A. My wages are no more than eleven to thirteen dollars a week.

Q. Are you a table cutter? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Do you save any money out of that? A. No, sir.

Q. Are you in debt; do you owe money? A. Well, I am alone at work and I have to support my wife and child.

Q. Does your wife work? A. No, she don't work, because she is sick most of the time.

Q. Can you pay all your bills? A. I do my best to keep my family going. It is very hard to keep my family on account of the way living is today. Everything is so dear that it is so very hard to keep my family today. I had to keep four of my little babies. I had four last year. I lost two, one after the other. I got two this year, and probably if I had had enough money to give good care to the children they would not be under the dirt today.

Q. How much do you think you ought to have? A. I think enough to make a decent living - a man should have about sixteen or seventeen dollars a week.

Q. That would mean about a 25 cent raise for you? A. Well 25 cent raise or fifteen cent raise, I think would be just right. It would be a difference of from thirty to thirty-five cents more every day and that will help the family out.

Q. That will give you a couple of dollars more a week? A. Two dollars or two and one half more would be all right. Besides that, on the question of taxation, in order to get any satisfaction at all from the boss or from the foreman - suppose we get twenty skins for forty-eight pairs, and before we start to cut we call the foreman or even the boss and we tell them we can not get the gloves from those skins. They answer you, if you don't like it, there is the door or there is the office. That means get your money, go where you come from. That is all.

Q. Taxation is pretty high? A. Yes it is and the quality of the skins are very bad, and to cut a pair of gloves today I have to cut my fingers pretty near.

Q. Do you own the house where you live? A. No, sir, I can not afford to pay my rent, which is ten or eleven dollars a month.

Q. Are you back in your rent? A. Oh yes.

Q. Are you back in some of your other bills? A. I have no money in the house. I owe the butcher and the grocer. I wish Saturday would never come. I never have any money in the house.

 

I S I D O R E B E R L I N E R, called and sworn as a witness, testifies as follows:

EXAMINED BY MR. McMAHON:

Q. How old are you Mr. Berliner? A. 27.

Q. Where do you live? A. 108 Plymouth Street.

Q. Where do you work? A. Elite Co.

Q. How many cutters are there? A. I suppose about 55 or something like that.

Q. How much do you make a week? A. Well I only work there a short time, I only work there about 32 months or something like that and the last few years I worked in New York, but I worked here in 1910, 1908 and 1909, I worked here in Gloversville.

Q. You have been a glove cutter in New York? A. Yes.

Q. Tell us about the conditions down there and here? A. Well the conditions down there, the reason I went to work, I worked up in Littauer's once and finally one day they sent down thirty of the cutters and I was one of the thirty cutters and a couple of days later I saw they wanted pull down cutters, that means below the price.

Q. For pull down cutters? A. For pull down prices. I was at that time single and I struck for nine months and then I went to New York. I did work in New York. Conditions in New York are very bad, and we always thought Gloversville is better than New York. I worked 22 years in New York and saw the conditions there. Now when it comes time to be married and settle up I made up my mind to come here to Gloversville and make my home here and I did come here and I thought I was going to improve my condition. I did not improve my condition. My average wage was about eleven and a half or twelve dollars, that is there?

Q. Where? A. Here in Gloversville at the Elite Glove Co. I was only married a short time and the first month's rent I had single money to pay, but when it come the second month rent after I was married I had to force my wife to work. I had laughed at everybody. I thought my wife would never work, when I was single, and when I got married I found my wife would have to work. Now the conditions in the Elite Glove Co., taxation is a different thing. You get skins and you are always short. You are never over. You never fill up your skins but that you are always short and if you go up to the foreman that bothers you about half an hour's time and you go up there and he says what's the matter, he don't give you a decent answer, what's the trouble there? We are short. He will say you are a hell of a cutter you are. They never get a decent answer. If you do call out one of the partners he answers the same thing. If you can't get it out somebody else will and then conditions altogether are that it is a dark place, it is not fit for a human being to work up there, it is fit for cattle. On a long day, when it comes three or four o'clock it is dark and if you do work, you got to work, perhaps nothing matches and they call you, they call you on everything.

Q. Have you ever been fined? A. No I was not. I expect I will never pay it. Of course I may be, if I keep it under those conditions I might be fined.

Q. How much did you make in New York? A. In New York I averaged about thirteen dollars or thirteen and a half and I was single, but now I come here to improve conditions and my average is about $11.50. My highest which I make up there is about sixteen dollars.

Q. You have only been in Gloversville about three and a half months? A. I am back since May.

Q. So that within the last year you have been making two dollars and a half more in New York than you do here? A. Then I make here, yes, but I know one thing, I make here years ago better wages than I make now in Gloversville.

Q. When you were here the first time? A. Yes, sir.

Q. That was in 1910? A. That was 1908, 1909 and 1910. I was driven out for nine months. During that nine months my honest wage was about a dollar a week.

Q. What did you do then? A. Didn't do anything. I had a few dollars I saved up and I put myself in debt and even have to pay now yet.

Q. Do you own your own house where you live now? A. No, I can't pay my rent.

Q. Are there any strike breakers working in the Elite factory? A. I guess four or five.

Q. Where do they get those? A. Two men remained in the shop. The foreman is working and another foreman is working and another man who was a shaver. They take him out for a pull down cutter.

Q. How about the cost of living in New York; was it enough higher so that two dollars more, the two dollars more than you made per week did not do you any good? A. Well in New York, of course the cost of living is much cheaper than here.

Q. It is cheaper? A. It is, I know if you do buy a pound of meat here it is 25 cents. You buy it in New York for 21 and so on every little thing. You could never buy an apple but here it is an exceptionally good year and you could never buy it but in New York you could buy it cheap.

Q. So you are a lot better off in New York than here? A. Yes, I was single. If I was married I suppose I would be just as bad off as I would be here.

Q. You think so? A. Yes.

 

M I R O S L A V C E R M E K, called and sworn as a witness testifies as follows:

EXAMINED BY MR. McMAHON:

Q. Where do you live? A. 10 Lafayette Street.

Q. Where do you work? A. Elite Company.

Q. How much do you make a week at the Elite Co.? A. My average is between eleven and twelve dollars.

Q. Are you married? A. Yes.

Q. Any children? A. Two children.

Q. Does your wife have to work? A. Oh, she works, when there is work, she makes between three and five dollars a week.

Q. Do you own the house you live in? A. Yes, I own the house, but that is about the same as paying rent, because when I make a living I never can pay for that house. I have to pay my interest and taxes, water taxes and things like that.

Q. Have you a mortgage on it? A. Yes, two mortgages. The house don't belong to me.

Q. Do you feel that you ought to have more money? A. Oh yes, I feel it, because I know it.

Q. So the employers were not able to pay any more money what would you say then? A. Well I guess they are able to pay.

Q. You think they are? A. Yes.

BY MR. ROGERS:

Q. What makes you think that Mr. Cermek? A. Because I think the European situation is the thing they can pay more, because they don't get any gloves from Europe and this is the only market for gloves in this country Gloversville.

BY MR. McMAHON:

Q. Does not the leather come from Europe, the leather you work on, isn't that imported? A. It does not come now.

Q. No more comes now? A. No.

Q. Do you know how much leather there is in Gloversville now? A. I have no idea about it.

Q. Have you any money saved up? A. No, I never can save anything from eleven or twelve dollars a week. With my wife, together we earn fifteen dollars a week. I never can save anything. I have two children and I have to support them and educate them and I never can save a cent.

BY MR. DOWNEY:

Q. Tell us about this house you own; you paid down a certain amount of money and then got the deed for it and after that you pay your rent as paying the mortgage is that it? A. I save something. I paid about two hundred dollars on the house and I must make a loan of that two hundred dollars. I couldn't pay my own money because I had no money.

Q. But you borrowed two hundred dollars and paid it on this house? A. Yes sir, and besides I got two mortgages on that house. That is the way you can own a house in Gloversville. It is the same thing as paying rent.

BY MR. McMAHON:

Q. It is the same thing? A. I wanted to have a garden and that is the reason I got the house.

Q. Is it costing for interest and taxes about the same as the rent would be? A. Yes, sometimes more. I have to fix things in the house and it costs more.

Q. Costs a little more? A. Yes.

Q. How much more? A. I can't say just how much more.

BY MR. McMANUS:

Q. How long have you worked in the factory where you work now? A. Three years and five months.

Q. What rate do you receive for cutting? A. What rate?

Q. Yes? A. We cut any kind of skin.

Q. What do they pay? A. They pay 95 cents for cape and one dollar for mocho and 90 cents for kid.

Q. Do they always pay that? A. Yes, so long as I work there.

Q. There has not been any reduction at any time in those prices? A. There was a two cent increase I guess one year ago. In our shop they paid 86 cents for one kind of gloves, chamois, and in other shops they paid 90 cents and in our shop they increased it the same as the other shops.

 

M A X S I L V E R, called and sworn as a witness testifies as follows:

BY MR. McMAHON:

Q. What is your name? A. Max Silver.

Q. Where do you live? A. 129 Linden Street.

Q. Where do you work? A. Lehr & Nelson.

Q. How old are you? A. 31.

Q. How much do you make a week Mr. Silver? A. (Witness puts a bundle of pay envelopes on the desk in front of counsel.)

Q. These are weekly envelopes? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Here is one $17.34; is that right? A. Yes, sir.

Q. How many hours a day do you work? A. Full ten hours.

Q. What are these, are these short weeks? $8.04? A. Full weeks, full ten hours work.

Q. Here is one week $18.93 and here is another week $7.60? A. Well that week I probably just started to work. I was not here in town I just came in. There was about a week and half into it and that is why it makes it that.

BY MR. ROGERS:

Q. Have you figured out what this averages? A. No sir.

Q. They run between eleven and twelve? A. They run $11.50 to $12.00 I presume.

BY MR. McMANUS:

Q. How much do they average? A. I have not figured it but I presume $11.50 and $12.00.

BY MR. ROGERS:

Q. Are you getting enough money Mr. Silver? A. I know I came back about August first - I was away in Schenectady and then I came back and finished this August about a year and I know as bignas I am in debt and my wife is hollering she wants to go back, I can't make a living for her.

Q. What did you do in Schenectady? A. I had a business there and my wife took sick and we were forced to come back.

Q. You are not able to get along? A. We are getting along the best we can. We could get along better.

Q. Is your wife sick? A. No, sir.

Q. Does she work now? A. She never worked since she was married. She worked as a girl.

Q. How are conditions in the factory where you are? A. Conditions in the factory start up - - it comes like the stock market. In the stock market they are changing the stock from one day to the other. In the taxing room if there shows up a lot of cutters he shall tax a little tight and squeeze more because there are more cutters and a few weeks later it is getting busy and many cutters don't show up and we can't get the gloves out and they tax a little lesser so it goes like a regular stock market.

Q. How is the taxation? A. Well, usually on every lot, short five or six pairs, and you go up stairs and you holler that there are not the gloves into them. The foreman says you do the best you can and you are short and then there are eight or ten pairs of gloves for which there are no fittings and there are five or six pairs short - and he says go ahead and put on the fingers and we say we can not get the fingers. Look it up and by the time you have looked it up you have lost good pay.

Q. How long have you been here since you came here from Schenectady? A. Since August first, 1913. I worked for the same firm.

Q. Any money saved up? A. Just as I said before. I am bigger in debt than I was.

Q. You are behind? A. Of course I bought a little property but I can prove by the Fulton County Bank that I left here in 1911 with $150 and on August 1st I put in $300 that I brought from Schenectady.

Q. Have you been even since you came back here? A. Since I come back I couldn't get even with the debts, that is from the money I made, I had to eat up some of my money.

Q. Do you own the house where you live? A. I just bought it in June.

Q. Any mortgage on it? A. as big or probably bigger than the roof is. It probably cost about two thousand two hundred dollars. I gave two hundred dollars on it. What does it amount to? On November first I have to make my payment and I am striking seven weeks and my chances are that I will be driven out of there myself.

Q. How long have you been a glove cutter? A. About nine or ten years.

Q. Where did you learn the business? A. Here.

Q. Are conditions any better now than when you first landed? A. Conditions are always better since I landed. I have seen enough in the glove trade that was bad, but it seems it is getting worse every year. I remember when I started, I was working with my brother in law and we learned the trade and then we made about ninety or ninety five dollars, two men working. Then we had monthly pay. Sometimes though I understand they had yearly pay. They had a hard fight to get weekly pay. Conditions seem worse. Every year they buy poorer stock and it seems to get worse every year. The high cost of living is coming up so far you can hardly meet expenses. When I came here that time we used to pay 16 cents for meat and now we pay 25 cents and the butcher man says as soon as the strike is settled and we will get a few cents more out of it you fellows will have to pay more and the baker man says he will raise on the bread. You can see where we will stand. They are now selling pocket books getting ready for the increase.

MR. McMAHON: That is all.

THE WITNESS: Can I make a little remark Mr. McMahon?

MR. McMAHON: Yes.

THE WITNESS: Now as to conditions in the shop, we had a little while ago a man named Abramovitz. He is around here and can prove it. It came a certain Saturday and he got his pay and he started to look at the pay and he said By God I am going to see Mr. Lehr. We all turned around and said why are you going to see him, are you short in the pay? He said, I want to make him a proposition. We all said what is your proposition. He says I can't get along with these wages. Just as quickly as I go with my pay and I want to pay everybody I have nothing left. I will make him a proposition to work six days in the week if he will pay my grocery bill and meat bill and I will be perfectly satisfied. You can imagine we are not any more slaves but free men and not entitled to starve to death as free men.

Q. You don't know how that proposition came out do you? A. It was just for himself because he could not settle the bill. I would make that proposition myself because I can't get along. He don't have to think of it because he can feel that people are not running after him to be fed. We are willing to pay everybody but where will we get it from.

 

E D W A R D B A R C O S I, called and sworn as witness testifies as follows:

EXAMINED BY MR. McMANUS:

Q. Where do you live? A. 36 Clark Street.

Q. Where do you work? A. At Perrins Glove Co.

Q. How much do you make a week, there? A. Well some weeks I make twelve, some weeks eleven, some weeks ten, some weeks thirteen and fourteen.

Q. Twelve dollar average? A. I don't think it averages that.

Q. Between eleven and twelve? A. Yes.

Q. How is the taxation there? A. Pretty bad I think, in my opinion. It is pretty bad.

Q. How is with you, pretty bad? A. Yes it is.

Q. How many cutters are there? A. I should judge about 30 to 35 or 40, something like that. Of course I don't keep track of the number of cutters.

Q. Do you know whether there are any strike breakers working down there? A. There are not.

Q. There are none? A. None.

Q. Are you married? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Does your wife have to work? A. She is compelled to in order to help the house get along.

Q. How much does she make? A. She makes two or three dollars a week, sometimes nothing, because she has four children and has to take care of them.

Q. Are you able to save any money? A. I am always in debt.

Q. You don't own the house where you live? A. No I do not. I must say I am with my father in law. If it had not been for him I could hardly live. Even with my wife working it is quite a help to me being with him.

Q. Couldn't get along otherwise? A. No, it is impossible.

Q. How long have you worked at this trade? A. About 14 years.

Q. How are conditions now? A. They are getting worse every day.

Q. Have you always worked for Perrin? A. No, I worked for ten years for Lewis Myers & Sons. Then I worked for Adlers a little while. I don't remember just how long. Then I worked for Edward W. Klobert and finally I got to Perrins.

Q. How long is that? A. Almost a year.

Q. Have you noticed any change in conditions during that year? A. The only change is that it is getting worse every day.

Q. Taxation getting harder? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Your wages are the same? A. No, they are getting less every week.

Q. They don't make actual decrease in your wages, do they? A. No, they don't.

Q. What brings it about then, taxation? A. The way they want the work done, the exactness, and the kind of skins they give you. You have to work around them an hour to see where you can get more gloves out of a piece.

Q. Perhaps they can not get any other skins? A. Yes they could I believe if they would pay the money for them, they could get better.

 

E D W A R D S W E T M A N, called and sworn as a witness testified as follows:

EXAMINED BY MR. McMAHON:

Q. How old are you? A. 39.

Q. Married? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Where do you work? A. Perrins Co.

Q. Table cutter? A. Yes, sir.

Q. That pays 95 cents and a dollar? A. Yes, sir.

Q. How much do you make a week? A. Well for 52 weeks this year I should say a little under thirteen dollars.

Q. You don't work 52 though, do you? A. No, sir, don't get the chance.

Q. Have you any children? A. No, sir.

Q. Does your wife work? A. Yes, sir.

Q. How long have you been with Perrin? A. About six months.

Q. Where were you before that? A. James A. Batty & Sons.

Q. Did you make about the same money there? A. Just about the same.

Q. How long have you been a table cutter? A. About 25 years.

Q. Have you made any more money than you are making now? A. Oh yes. I worked in Boston for a number of years and I made more money there.

Q. How was the cost of living there? A. The cost of living pretty nearly the same, house rent may be a little bit higher in Boston.

Q. How much is that? A. What you would pay $12 a month for here you would have to pay $14 for there.

Q. How much do you pay here? A. Twelve dollars.

Q. Is that for an entire house? A. No, sir, one floor in a two family house.

Q. Is that about the average rent? A. A good many people have to pay more.

Q. What have you to say about conditions and the reason you are striking? A. The reason I am striking is because I do not think I earn enough money for a man to support even a wife let alone a man with a family. My money is not enough for me and my wife to live on comfortably. If she didn't work to help out I think I should have to go in a hole.

Q. How much of an increase do you think would be fair? A. I don't think anything less than 20 or 25 cents would be fair. If we have to accept this i suppose we have to.

Q. How long ago were you in Boston? A. I was in Boston in 1900 to 1911.

Q. 1900 to 1911, for eleven years? A. Yes, sir.

Q. Why did you leave? A. The firm I worked for went out of business.

Q. Was that because they were paying too high wages? A. I don't think so.

BY MR. DOWNEY:

Q. What are the average rents in this city, about, what the glove cutters have to pay, do you know? A. I do not know that I would know for sure, but I should judge an average of about thirteen or fourteen dollars a month.

BY MR. McMAHON:

Q. That is for a man with a family? A. As a rule a man with a family has to pay more because a man with no family can get rooms easier than him with a family.

BY MR. DOWNEY:

Q. And the average would be about fifteen dollars a month? A. I should judge for a man with a family they would have to be pretty nearly fifteen dollars a month.

BY MR. McMAHON:

Q. We had some testimony yesterday that rooms that cost $1.50 two years ago are $2.00 now, are there many rooms here at that price? A. I do not think there are many rooms in Gloversville to be got at $8 a month. That would just about cover a single man at $2 a week for a room.

RECESS UNTIL "2:00 P.M."
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