From the Electronic Discussion on Group
Facilitation
www.albany.edu/cpr/gf/
Late Comers for
Breakfast
From: Dutch Driver
<choragus@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 12:23:58 -0800
It is a
dilemma that many of us face. I am a
volunteer facilitator for a professional organization’s area breakfast for
consultants.
People are
arriving up to 30 minutes late for the hour and one-half meeting. The problem
is growing and it is disruptive to the flow of the meeting.
So, I
am looking for gentle/fun recommendations to handle this and nip this behavior
in the bud, and get them in the room on time.
From: Dale Emery <dale@dhemery.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 14:10:11 -0800
Hi Dutch,
Put
"managing meetings" as the topic for one of your upcoming
meetings. Then when people arrive late,
that gives the group a nice example to explore and resolve.
In
fact, even if you don't have a specific topic to discuss meetings, you can give
the problem to the group to solve – raise the issue as a group issue, and
facilitate the ensuing conversation.
Dale
From: Steve Alexander <steve@alexanderpa.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 14:16:17 -0800
I
always "reward" good behavior and ignore "bad" behavior
(the old Skinnerian in me!), so we give memorable prizes at the end of the
meeting for the person who arrived first; after a few team meetings, everyone
was in competition be get the "first to arrive" prize. One of the ground rules established early on
is "start on time, end on time," and I state outright that my job is
be prepared and get started on time, and to likewise commit to ending on time
(and when we do both, people really appreciate having their time honored). With a new group I always share a concept
from the days when I taught time management, and that is that when a person is
late, it's a way of saying they are much more important than you, it is a
symptom of egocentric behavior. Even
though all of us try to justify it, whether it related to not allowing enough
time for traffic, taking that "last minute" phone call, or whatever
the excuse (I also teach them the difference between a "reason" and
an "excuse"), each of these stems from putting yourself before
others. No one likes to think of
themselves this way, and we do discuss it for a few minutes in a first session,
then the group becomes the "behavior monitor" of itself after a bit.
I must
say, though, the prizes really work! We
are all little boys and girls deep inside, so the movie tickets, coffee shop
coupons, etc. are great "treats" than people enjoy.
From: Paula M. Diller <pmariad@sprynet.com>
Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2004 17:20:40 -0600
My
assumption #1: The meeting is a voluntary activity among consultants.
My assumption #2: The
tardy consultants do not believe the value they get from the first half hour of
the meeting warrants an investment of their time and attention.
My assumption #3:
Appealing to the consultants' sense of values/altruism may have some effect,
but it doesn't address their desire for a perceived return on their investment
of time and attention.
I like the idea of laying
out the behavior and its effect to the group and let them address it - after
the latecomers have arrived.
Alternatively, if it's
not being done already, a meeting evaluation might be helpful, especially if
someone else is in charge of the meeting agendas.
From: Barbara Pirie <jspirie@connect.com.fj>
Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2004 13:48:38 +1200
What
is 'late'?????
What is 'on time'????
These are cultural
constructs with clock time being important in some cultures but irrelevant in
others. Other time options are event
time or relationship time.
So being late is not a
power trip unless it is a behavior that displays 'power over' within that
culture.
It could just mean some
one got caught in traffic.
We tend to translate a
behavior from our cultural perspective but there are multiple meanings to all
behaviors. Check out the various
expectations and assumptions about time/meeting time (yours, the group members,
the group, the profession, the geographical area, etc.).
You could facilitate a
discussion about the different time segments available in their breakfast
meeting. A lot of professional groups
I know with breakfast meetings plan the first half to ¾ hour for networking so
it's on 'relationship time'. Then the
program occurs in the later half of the meeting and that runs more on 'clock
time'. Some have a flexible half hour
at the end (room is still booked for the group) so that any interesting
discussion can be completed by those that are interested in staying on even
though the meeting is officially closed.
The group has a lot of
options and I think it should choose.
Prizes for being early/on
time remind me of kindergarten or sunday school. They would work in a culture where competition is important but
might be viewed negatively in a cooperation culture.
From: Robin Gast <rgast@thymes.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 09:09:40 -0600
Is it the same few people
each time or does it vary? If it is the
same people, talk to them directly. I
can't stand the "let's make a policy so everyone can feel bad"
mentality when you really only need to handle a select few.
If it varies, maybe you
can ask them afterwards what was up.
Everyone has a crisis in their mornings on occasion. You need to find the cause(s) before you can
start directing the solution.
Also, if this is a
consistent problem, maybe your meeting is starting too early. School and daycares only open so early so
working families can't just leave that 15 minutes earlier to accommodate the
ever possible traffic jam that just MIGHT occur that morning.
From: Jon Jenkins <jon@imaginal.nl>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 16:55:37 +0100
Dear
Dutch
There seem to be a couple
of solutions.
1. It’s your problem, get
over it and live with people being late.
2. Talk it through with
the group or individuals who are the offenders. Decide together on sanctions for those who are late.
2.1 Talk it through with
the group or individuals who are the offenders with the assumption that the
talking will solve the problem.
3. Create subtle or not
so subtle sanctions for those who are late (or rewards for those who are early).
4. Announce that we will
all be on time but "on time" means we won't start until 30 min. after
the announced starting time.
5. Create enough guilt in
those who are late that they stop coming.
6. Change the structure
of the meeting so that being late isn't a problem.
Some of these have the
feel of punish the many for the sins of the few.
We Americans seem to be a
bit obsessed with being on time. It is
funny, in my experience it is at the level of the minute that we check and not
at the second or millisecond or the hour or the day. You could announce that the meeting with start at
08:30:00:01. I hear stories of making
an appointment for Tuesday in full knowledge that it means sometime this week
or so.
I tend to agree with
Barbara about time being a cultural thing.
The Dutch make promises that they will be on time but meetings always
start at least 10 min. after the starting time. They then complain about "other cultures" that are
always late. I showed up "on
time" to an appointment in Sri Lanka and was told that I was being very
rude. I had a boss who put his brief
case (sample case) in front of the door at the starting time so people had to
climb over it. Another person always
waited to being until everyone was present.
A third started right on time and ended on time. One guy I knew was always late because he
felt it was a high status thing to do.
Many people in one organisation I worked with showed up late for
meetings and left early because the only thing that was important for them was
the fact that they "were there."
From: Greg Brittingham <glbrittingha@vcu.edu>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 11:25:47 -0600
Hi
Dutch,
What is the underlying
cause of the dysfunctional behavior? As
some people mentioned, maybe traffic, day-care openings, etc. is the
cause. Maybe the meeting isn't meeting
their needs but they feel obligated to make an appearance - so the purpose of
the gathering may need to shift to meet their needs. Maybe an hour is all that is needed, not 90 minutes.
Why not ask the group? Offer an objective observation of what has
happened without pointing fingers.
"I notice on any given meeting that 10-20% of the members do not
arrive at the scheduled starting time.
Is this affecting the work/purpose of this meeting and if so, how? What can we do to make it better?"
Let them define the
problem, if one exists, and the solution.
From: Ned Ruete <nruete@myeastern.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 11:53:51 -0500
My
sense from Dutch saying that it's getting worse is that he believes it's becoming
a culture of "it's okay, we never start on time."
IF
that's your diagnosis the first thing is to check it out. Then ask the group if they want to do
anything about it. Straight out of
Schwarz "The Skilled Facilitator" developmental facilitation/ diagnosis-intervention
cycle.
What
do others think?
From: L. H. TURNER III <l.turner@worldnet.att.net>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 12:10:02 -0600
Originally Dutch said:
People are arriving up to 30 minutes
late for the hour and one-half meeting. The problem is growing and it is
disruptive to the flow of the meeting.
Later, Ned said:
IF that's your diagnosis the first
thing is to check it out. and asked:
What do others think?
Lou comments:
My Root Cause Analysis
side first wants to know: What is THE problem?
Is the problem people arriving late? or is the problem disruptive flow?
or is there something else that is lurking behind both of these observations?
It has already been
pointed out that "late" could have various meanings, or being late
can have various causes - even that the meeting is scheduled too early. The RCA process - a facilitated team charged
with doing an analysis and reaching a justified conclusion - focuses on first
defining and identifying the problem and then searching for the cause(s). Only after verifying the causes and the
logic of their connection to the specific problem does the process shift to
mitigation or what some call "solution
development".
At the risk of sounding
overly simplistic, the process is:
(1) Get the question -
problem defined, (2) then look for the causes, (3) verify that it fits all the
facts, (4) and then look for solutions.
Perhaps this helps Dutch
with his breakfast meeting. I might
take the opportunity to use this situation to instruct the group in the basics
of the RCA process itself by taking it as the example problem for them to work
on.
This conversation thread
has presented a number of simple questions and comments that I found helpful
for thinking about problem solving and identification. Thanks Dutch for asking
your question.
From: Bill Harris <bill_harris@facilitatedsystems.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 17:22:43 -0800
Ned Ruete
<nruete@myeastern.com> writes:
> IF that's your
diagnosis the first thing is to check it out.
Then ask the
> group if they want
to do anything about it. Straight out
of Schwarz "The
> Skilled
Facilitator" developmental facilitation/ diagnosis-intervention
> cycle.
I like Barbara's, Ned's,
and Greg's (and thus Roger's) ideas.
I've heard of the penalty
approach ($1 for being late, for example).
I react quite negatively to that, I'm afraid. Perhaps that's because I know some people for whom $1 is a
fraction of the multiple cups of coffee they have daily, and that $1is less
painful than changing their behavior. I know others who watch their every
dollar and for whom the $1 is about their lunch for the day.
If it's a business issue,
treat it in a business-like manner. If
it's a cultural issue, treat it in a culturally sensitive or at least
appropriate manner. In either case, I
suspect Ned's idea above works well, although you might have to modify how you
ask depending upon the
culture.
I can't figure out when
to penalize latecomers or reward prompt attenders unless we are ourselves into
control
From: creative connections <ccc1@sympatico.ca>
Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2004 22:08:57 -0500
I have to say that all
the replies to this message are fantastic and totally sensible
However Dutch you cannot
solve this problem.
The late comers are
beyond your control.
You can create a hostile
environment for them with ever increasing creativity (another I thought of was
to have special information in that first half hour like a new place or time to
meet) which can and maybe will torment them... however ....
It is always the problem
stater that has the problem, and if we are to be of any assistance to you, at
all, we need to know - In this situation do you and only you have a issue?